I'm not sure if Marriage can be synonymously used with Happiness, but for some, they represent more of a parallel journey. Can true happiness be embraced without someone to share it with?
If you haven't seen the news by now, you're probably living in a cave without internet, but the California Supreme Court overturned a previous voter decision to ban gay marriage. The court decided that civil unions were not equal to marriage itself. I agree...am I a second class citizen for being queer and not being able to enjoy married life with someone of the same sex.
For those that oppose it, all I can say is why do they have such a big issue with it? Who is it going to hurt? And don't give me that crap about gay marriage ruining marriage...go watch Jerry Springer and you'll see how straight people have done a superb job of messing up marriage.
On a positive note, the California economy will likely seen a small boon as people spend money on legal gay weddings...similar to the euphoria seen around February 2004 when San Francisco allowed gay marriage.
Unfortunately, I wonder if the Supreme Court took into account the religious freedom of churches in their decision. I know that many religions do not allow gay marriage, and I'm OK with that (no matter how archaic), because there are plenty that do allow gay marriage. If a church does not allow it, will they be forced to go against their own policy? Division of church and state is such a touchy subject on this, and it, of course, may be the biggest stumbling block for ratifying gay marriage throughout the US.
Anyway, I guess I need to start working on the first step...dating.
9 comments:
This is good news and I'm very happy for all of you in California. I agree, it will be a small boon to the economy cause we all know us queers like to do it up right. For the life of me, I just don't understand why anyone cares if two women or two men get married, but some seem to be living in the stone age.
Dating, well, yeah, I'm thinking about maybe diving back in after four years away. I've really wrestled with it but I just feel like I'm maybe at a place where I would like to test the water. For a long time I wasn't sure if it would be with guys or girls but in the end, I just accepted the fact that women do it for me.
As Greg, I had no problem getting a girlfriend but you know what, I haven't the slightest idea how to proceed and I'm scared to death. I want to believe that there is someone out there for me but doubt is always lurking in the back of my mind.
Any tips?
The only thing I can think of is to be yourself. Otherwise, I am probably one of the last people on this Earth to give dating advice. Any tips for me? =)
You know, I'm pushing 40 years old and I'm just so out of the loop anymore that I'm scared to death. This is all so new for me and then you add in the self-confidence angle, something that I didn't worry about as Greg and it's a whole new ballgame.
Kara said.....
"Any tips for me?"
You could date me? :)
Lauren- Dallas
Kelly I'll take a stab as to why the whole marriage thing is such a big deal. I'll preface my remarks by saying I'm not a bible thumper and have only been to church a handful of times in the last 35 years.
First marriage isn't a right for anyone straight or gay, so denying someone the ability to get married isn't denying them a right. It's no different than a drivers license. It's a luxary, not a right.
Second, it matters to religious and nonreligious straight folks because it is forcing a redefinition(against their will) of not just a word but an entire institution that has exsisted for literally thousands of years as an overwhelmingly male/female definition. The legal ramifications regarding insurance,inheritence...etc..etc..will force them,in the public arena in some cases to have to go against their deep held religious beliefs. So it's dictating religion.
Lastly, how far will we take the redefinition? The state has all different types restrictions on who can get married, if two men can marry why not a mother and adult son? Brother and sister?
Who get's to choose which people are discriminated against and which aren't?
If we're willing to redifine an institution that has existed for thousands of years then what makes the gay marriage argument any more valid than any other group that is restricted from getting married?
I would hardly call marriage a luxury, a burden perhaps, but luxury, no. I've seen a lot of yahoo's get married who do nothing but make a mockery of the so called institutuion of marriage and do nothing but make it even less appealing to people like me. Can you say Brittney Spears?
As for your silly argument that we can't change the definition of marriage, well, that's just nonsense and you know it. Throughout history we've changed the defintion of marriage and as long as we stay viable as a species, something that I'm not exactly wagering on, we'll continue to do so. Do the words "Forced Marriage" or "Arranged Marriage" mean anything to you?
Finally, we don't have to go back very far to see another big change in marriage. Until the 20th century, a black man or woman could not marry a white man or woman. That seems pretty messed up if you ask me, just like prohibiting same sex marriage today.
Look, I could care less if a church doesn't want to perform same sex marriages but the govt. has no business telling a loving couple that they can't get married because they happen to be the same gender.
Religion has absolutely no say in what is and isn't legal in this country. Religion is a totally non-issue here and shouldn't even come into play. When people throw their religious crap at me I just throw it right back at them and tell them to stick it as religion is not recognized by the US government.
My church would perform a same sex marriage in a heart beat but it wouldn't be recognized as official because a bunch of knuckle draggers want to protect the damn "sanctity" of something that long ago lost any sense of sanctity.
In the end, I really don't care, I have no intention of ever getting married and never did. Marriage isn't my cup of tea, I couldn't imagine waking up to the same person for the rest of my life. God that would get old but dammit, others should have the right to do so.
If you can find a better argument that tradition and religoin, I'll listen but until then, I'm done with it.
Sorry Kara, but when people spout a bunch of nonsense I can't let them get away with it. At the very least, they should have the courage to identify themselves and not hide behind some anonymous label. Thanks Kara and have a great day.
Kelly,
Funny isn't it, no where in my post did I say whether I was for or against it. I merely asked how will you deal with the legal ramifications of changing the definition of marriage. What I wrote was in response to your asking why anyone cares.
Whether you feel their reasons are valid or not isn't relevent, you asked why they would care. I told you.
However, your reponses were ridiculous. Whether you like the word luxary or not marriage is not a right. So not allowing any particular group to marry isn't denying them their rights.
In all the examples you gave of changes in marriages they ALL still involve a man and a woman. None redefined marriage.
Unless of course you can dig up where there was wide spread forced,arranged or interacial same sex marriages.
When the majority of the people,for religious reasons or not, subscribe to the belief that marriage is between a man and woman then they set the standards for what the government allows. That's what gives the government the right to set the standards. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.
As for religion not having any say in what is legal or not. All I can say is look at what's written on your money,you swear on a bible in court, they say a prayer at the begining of every session of Congress. The government decides what is a true religion and what isn't for the purposes of tax breaks. Our very laws have their roots in religion. The modern prison system is even based on a religious model.
Posting as Anonymous? How about this, call me Jennifer, or George or Carol, maybe Darth Vader hows that? I could put up any identity just like you or any of the other millions on the internet, it wouldn't mean it was accurate or true.
If there's any nonsense being posted here, it's the temper tantrum you just had.
This is my last post on this topic and I'm done with you, but again, religion has absolutely no say in what is and isn't law in this country. None, despite whatever might be written on the money and as for swearing on a bible in court, one can refuse to do that, it's not mandatory.
Our laws are not based on any kind of religious basis and you just know that's false. Read the Federalist Papers and you'll see that the Founding Fathers had a deep mistrust for religion and made sure to note that as a Republic, there would be no state religion.
As for not changing marriage, so what if my examples only included men and women getting married, it's still a change in the definition of marriage. People who claim that marriage has been the same for thousands of years are just kidding themselves. It hasn't, it keeps on changing and it will continue to change for centuries to come.
The political tide in this country is quickly turning against the conservative viewpoint of how things should be done. Gays and lesbians keep winning little battles and seldom losing any. When Bush took office in 2000, you couldn't have a same sex marriage in the US, today you can do it in two states and several offer civil unions with New Jersey the next to offer full marriage. In no state is gay marriage illegal where it wasn't in 2000 and one by one, those antiquated laws will fall by the wayside.
We keep winning these little battles and once we win them, there is no turning back. 20 years from now people will look back and laugh at us for the bigotry just like I laugh at anyone who once sanctioned Jim Crow laws. The future voters, the kids of today, could care less about religion, about tradition and all the other nonsense that holds us back as a society. They will demand change and change they will get.
Thanks for a spirited debate and we'll just have to disagree on this. I make no apologies for fighting against organized religion, conservative politics and bigotry. I'm not accusing you of that so don't blow a gasket on me. THanks and have a great day.
Hey Kelly
You said that reforms are here to stay, that present day youth demand change and thus they will get it. Well I fear I am not so sure about that: there have been enlightened times and arrogant, narrowminded times. The things we have gained, may very well be rolled back. It is a fact that the extreme right wing is not asleep - when they get half a chance, they will withdraw these rights. So it is a matter of staying awake as well!
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